"Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by Deleted User 247 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:21 pm

tck62 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:13 pm
georgeglass wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:03 am
Sometimes people aren't willing to do the work at a wage the market will support. Sometimes there aren't enough qualified candidates to do a job. You can't just throw money at an inefficiency.
George it's ok if our rich people and businesses have to pay to train their own workforce. I mean our entire country isn't designed to cater to the desires of the wealthy, perhaps if a job doesn't pay enough that only way the person working it and their family can survive is the tax payers back filling the living wage via wage subsidy programs like WIC, SNAP, Section 8 housing, Medicaid and utility assistance maybe that's just a business that doesn't deserve to exist and it's most certainly not a respectable for a business owner to make a living.
There are plenty of jobs that pay a living wage, yet remain unfilled because there isn't a pool of qualified candidates or the work is too physically demanding to entice one willing to be trained. How would you fill those jobs? That is the purpose of immigration.

Training workers that do not have the aptitude or desire to do a job is a waste of money. If someone prefers to work a menial job and receive public assistance, that money is better spent.



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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by JAF » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:56 am

tck62 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:17 pm
all the illegal immigrant has to do is have a child on American soil and they can access all the wage subsidy programs in their citizen child's name
And risk deportation.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by tck62 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:11 pm

JAF wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:56 am
tck62 wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:17 pm
all the illegal immigrant has to do is have a child on American soil and they can access all the wage subsidy programs in their citizen child's name
And risk deportation.
How would they risk deportation? The government agencies have been in charge of the wage subsidy programs don't ask the parents about their citizenship. The way the system is designed is to keep business in cheap labor.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:07 pm

JAF wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:16 am
The idea that illegal immigrants are a strain on resources is attractive politically,
I didn't say anything about resources. What I said was they drive down wages. That is becasue since they are working illegally the are not subject to the same wage laws that Citizens and legal immigrants expect. There are even some industries (like construction) that have traditionally paid a decent living wage that are no longer doing so, becasue they can hire illegal immigrants at less then minimum wage.
JAF wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:16 am
The largest part of the group that work for less and put US citizens out of a job is foreign citizens on temporary work visas.
The difference is that those on a temporary work Visa are still subject to US minimum wage laws. Meaning there is a wage floor for these employees that is the exact same as the wage floor for anyone else. This isn't true with illegal immigration.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by TruthSeeker » Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:48 am

That would be more of an argument if that was the main problem. But, the truth is illegal immigrants aren’t taking many blue collar jobs and legal citizens have proven to not want most of the low skill jobs (like the agricultural ones) that they have historically taken.

What data (what’s your source?) have you seen that housing costs have risen noticeably because of illegal immigrants?


Tcbk:Yes and bringing in cheap foreign labor to depress blue collar and low skill wages while putting an upward pressure on housing costs is one of the primary mechanisms by which to money is directed to the top.
[/quote]

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by tck62 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:46 pm

TruthSeeker wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 9:48 am
That would be more of an argument if that was the main problem. But, the truth is illegal immigrants aren’t taking many blue collar jobs and legal citizens have proven to not want most of the low skill jobs (like the agricultural ones) that they have historically taken.

What data (what’s your source?) have you seen that housing costs have risen noticeably because of illegal immigrants?


Tcbk:Yes and bringing in cheap foreign labor to depress blue collar and low skill wages while putting an upward pressure on housing costs is one of the primary mechanisms by which to money is directed to the top.
[/quote]

Housing costs and availability are entirely predicated on the law of supply and demand, as more low income workers enter an area this puts pressure on low income housing availability and landlords can charge higher rent.

"That would be more of an argument if that was the main problem. But, the truth is illegal immigrants aren’t taking many blue collar jobs and legal citizens have proven to not want most of the low skill jobs (like the agricultural ones) that they have historically taken."

This is where stereotyping gets in the way of rational debate, especially the stereotyping done by the affluent college educated city folks, they consider these jobs beneath them and therefore beneath everyone, that working with your hands means there's something wrong with you. Here's the thing, unless you can take advantage of a foreign exchange rate to double or triple the perceived value of a $10 an hour job, you're not going to want to work for that pittance unless you have no other choice, so far as the people working in the country illegally the instant they acquire a valid social to worker under they will blend seamlessly into the blue collar workforce and work with a gusto for the same dynamic that helps some accept a $10 an hour job will turn them into the best employee on the worksite for $20. Think of it like this. Who is going to work harder, the fellow that can save $50K to buy a trailer in the worst part of town to retire in or the person who can save $50K and have a 4 bedroom home on a acre with a cool patio in a good part of town?

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by Senor Natural » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:33 am

scarab280 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:58 pm
tck62 wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:38 pm
Cat's Paw wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 7:07 pm


All growth goes to the top.
Ranks of poor are growing.
Middle class is eroding.
Wealth gap is growing.

None to the bottom. All goes somewhere, so it must be the top.
Yes and bringing in cheap foreign labor to depress blue collar and low skill wages while putting an upward pressure on housing costs is one of the primary mechanisms by which to money is directed to the top.
This is a slight divergence, however, I will push on with it. My experience by and large of immigrants here, in New Zealand, and we have a LOT, both from our open door policy with several Pacific Islands, and from refugees, asylum seekers, and straight up immigrants from a variety of Asian and other countries, is that they are exceptionally hard working, many of them start their own small businesses and are contributing more than a lot of 'NZers'. They do not take benefits as in unemployment payments, sickness benefits etc from the government. You will find the entire family pulls together, and in a lot of cases, their businesses thrive & they create new jobs, again often for unskilled or unqualified NZers that would not find employment elsewhere, as unlike these hard working immigrants, no one else would take a chance on them by employing them. Where I live is gloriously multi cultural, a veritable melting pot, and I love it.
My work experience has been specialised management then consulting. In the course of that career, I have employed both immigrants and NZers, both have their benefits, but I have to say, my experience is that immigrants work harder, complain less, are far less embued with a sense of entitlement, AND activeky seek ways to give back to the community and society that has afforded them the opportunity of a 'new' life.
Also, I don't belive anyone mentioned 'uncontrolled immigration' here...did they?
This is a slight divergence, however, I will push on with it. My experience by and large of immigrants here, in New Zealand, and we have a LOT, both from our open door policy with several Pacific Islands, and from refugees, asylum seekers, and straight up immigrants from a variety of Asian and other countries, is that they are exceptionally hard working, many of them start their own small businesses and are contributing more than a lot of 'NZers'. They do not take benefits as in unemployment payments, sickness benefits etc from the government. You will find the entire family pulls together, and in a lot of cases, their businesses thrive & they create new jobs, again often for unskilled or unqualified NZers that would not find employment elsewhere, as unlike these hard working immigrants, no one else would take a chance on them by employing them. Where I live is gloriously multi cultural, a veritable melting pot, and I love it.
Same in the USA, probably pretty much in most democratic countries.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by Cat's Paw » Fri Nov 22, 2019 3:00 pm

“Immigrants Don’t Depress Wages”, employers do.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by Cat's Paw » Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:36 pm

My ancestor came from Hessia, to fight George Washington.

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Re: "Immigrants Don't Depress Wages"

Post by Eryk » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:39 pm

Cat's Paw wrote:
Sat Nov 23, 2019 9:36 pm
My ancestor came from Hessia, to fight George Washington.
What’s your family’s life story?

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