Welcoming the Words on the Wednesday Political Open Thread

[Senor Natural]

Some of us see reality clearly.... some troll accounts do their best to torpedo that, in service to their evil masters.

I disagree with limo on MANY things, but he doesn't strike me as the "servicing an evil master" type. He's seems more like the "has an extra set of old golf clubs in his garage" type.

He and Eric Trump could be twins in many ways . . .

[limoman]

Limo, you’re sooo full of shit. First off, it’s your team

As RR loved to say " There you go again " with this "team" crap . I dont have a team . I did not vote in the last 2 presidential elections . I am a free agent that leans right .

So all that blathering after that does not apply to me no matter how much you think it does with that binary thinking again.

[Senor Natural]

Its all part of the dems strategy , opposing ideas will now be termed extremist, racist ,anti american, take your pick the libs are very creative haha .

NOW be termed extremist? Remember that just a few short years ago the left was calling previous GOP Presidential candidate Mitt Romney "Mittler" and painting him as a radical racist/Nazi. Now he's being held up by the Democrats as a voice of reason within the GOP. I guess Trump being elected put the whole "Republicans are a bunch of fascists" thing that I've heard for decades from the Democrats into perspective now that they got to see what a real fascist looks like up close.

Both sides are going to use whatever hyperbole they can muster to demonize the other side and gain power. It's always been like that and I don't see it stopping anytime soon. Both sides keep trying to convince everyone that the entire opposition party is as crazy as its most extreme members.

Why can't the RWNJs and the LWNJs just leave and start their own wacky fringe parties and let the vast majority of moderates from both parties keep steering the Ship of State with a more steady hand.

Run for office. If you don't like the current two party system, start your own party. Now, more than any time before, is a good time to offer a viable alternative.

[limoman]

You like inclusiveness, right?

Mike will have to check his "team" handbook and get back to you on that one why

[Senor Natural]

Aren’t you the guy who frequently complains about ‘whataboutism’? Yet you seem to do it virtually every time the Right is called out on something.... while virtually never doing it when the Left is called out.

I don't see the act of trying to compile a comprehensive list of wacky nutcases from both parties as an attempt at 'whataboutism'. It's more like....inclusiveness. You like inclusiveness, right?

It is an attempt to divert from the treason that just occurred - 'what about' the other side 'when' . . . it is as simple as that. Republicans all over the country are doing it right now to divert attention from the attempted insurrection and their complicity in it. You can see that, I'm sure.

[Whynotsomething?]

Democrat: GOP colleagues say they're 'afraid for their lives' if they vote to impeach Trump
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5340 ... ey-vote-to

Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) said Republicans he spoke with on Tuesday evening wept and told him they fear their personal safety as they weigh whether to vote in favor of impeachment of President Trump this week.

"The majority of them are paralyzed with fear," Crow said Wednesday on MSNBC. "I had a lot of conversations with my Republican colleagues last night. A couple of them actually broke down in tears, saying that they are afraid for their lives if they vote for this impeachment."

Crow, who did not name the lawmakers, said he told them "welcome to the club."

Uh...DUH! No shit, dummy. This is why they didn't vote to impeach him the first time either, because they're terrified of Trump's death squads. The GOP is terrified of their own voters thanks to Trump. Now you have a bunch of Republican reps who are sobbing "I just wanted tax cuts....not this!"

Yeah, suck it up guys. You knowingly built this monster, you kept feeding it, now reap the whirlwind. You signed away your soul, so don't start crying now that it's time to pay up.

My favorite comment that I've seen about this was "'I never thought the leopards would eat MY face!' sobs person who joined the Leopards Eat People's Faces party."

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

It is an attempt to divert from the treason that just occurred

It wasn't an attempt to divert from anything. I have fully acknowledged that 1/3 of congress has proven themselves unfit for the job. Just because I'm not scream from the rooftops and running about in outrage doesn't mean I'm diverting. This conversation is like the mad hatters tea party. I write a post talking about the people who have clearly defined themselves as unfit and the Madhatter and Tea mouse accuse me of trying to avoid that very issue. No point in trying to make sense of it.

[Mike]

But this gets to the bigger issue, the one limo and guide and yourself keep trying to downplay.

The GOP is afraid of its voters. Literally afraid for their lives. Those voters showed up on Capitol Hill last week, with a gallows ready for Mike Pence. For merely doing his duty as an elected statesman. No one expected him to show any courage in the face of the voters of his own party by invoking the 25th. He would rather face the remainder of his life in shame, and the ire of the rest of the nation and world, than to risk his actual life that way.

So let’s then revisit the “guilt by association” thing that limo and others keep trying to purport.
It’s the other way around.
Trump’s existence merely allows conservatives and republicans to be who they really are. Like vodka to an alcoholic who spent years covering up his rageful self, trump’s arrival tapped the real core of who these people are. You are seeing it and experiencing it right now. They will be bringing guns to all 50 state capitals over the next couple weeks, and there is little doubt they will try for more chaos now that they have tasted blood in the Capitol.

The rank and file mostly supports them. I had messaging interactions with a cousin (along with some other family and friends) this week. His statements, in the immediate wake of that murderous seditious riot, amount to the folks at the Capitol are as frustrated as we are, we will not allow socialism, no one gives a shit about your social justice, Dems will be held accountable for a stolen election, oh and maybe those folks at the Capitol went a little too far. It’s only now that everyone in that thread asked he cease communications with them that he has begun to scale back the rhetoric. Oh, and he complains that we are all ‘canceling’ him and denying him his first amendment right to speak freely!!

He is typical of what’s out there. All those trump flag waving caravans over the past many months.... they represent what used to be, when it was under cover, the GOP. Now they are out. THIS IS WHO THEY REALLY ARE. They voted for this in November, their elected representatives are STILL pushing it in the House and in state legislatures across the land. Because you are correct: those representatives fear for their very lives right now. The Gop... I mean, the trump party, are the peasants coming after them with torches and pitchforks.

Democrat: GOP colleagues say they're 'afraid for their lives' if they vote to impeach Trump
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5340 ... ey-vote-to

Rep. Jason Crow (D-Colo.) said Republicans he spoke with on Tuesday evening wept and told him they fear their personal safety as they weigh whether to vote in favor of impeachment of President Trump this week.

"The majority of them are paralyzed with fear," Crow said Wednesday on MSNBC. "I had a lot of conversations with my Republican colleagues last night. A couple of them actually broke down in tears, saying that they are afraid for their lives if they vote for this impeachment."

Crow, who did not name the lawmakers, said he told them "welcome to the club."

Uh...DUH! No shit, dummy. This is why they didn't vote to impeach him the first time either, because they're terrified of Trump's death squads. The GOP is terrified of their own voters thanks to Trump. Now you have a bunch of Republican reps who are sobbing "I just wanted tax cuts....not this!"

Yeah, suck it up guys. You knowingly built this monster, you kept feeding it, now reap the whirlwind. You signed away your soul, so don't start crying now that it's time to pay up.

My favorite comment that I've seen about this was "'I never thought the leopards would eat MY face!' sobs person who joined the Leopards Eat People's Faces party."

[Tarmaque]

LOL! Yeah, I understand. I've had more than a few conversations with my wife that started with her saying "What the hell do you need another goddamn gun for?"

My Dad used to get "gun money" from my mom every month. (About $200) with it he bought the most amazing collection of crap you can imagine. I won't say most of it is junk, but little of it is useful. In my whole life I've bought a grand total of three guns. One of them will be sold with the rest, but the other two are useful. (And fun!)

However a few of the things that Dad bought have appreciate it in value. I have a dandy Smith & Wesson army revolver that's probably worth between $1,200 and $1,500. I know for a fact he bought it in the '90s for about $250. So it goes.

Will that make up for all the basically valueless black powder stuff he bought and didn't take care of? I doubt it.

[Z is for Zangie]

LOL! Yeah, I understand. I've had more than a few conversations with my wife that started with her saying "What the hell do you need another goddamn gun for?"

Substitute a piece of BBQ or computer equipment and @DarkPaisley and I have that same conversation all the time.

It was the dang expensive tools that drove me nuts...especially the time he bought himself a right angle drill ( it was on sale...lol..sigh) at Christmas time, when he was complaining we were spending too much money on Christmas ( and really , how many times does he need a right angle drill, not like he needed it for work), and wrapped it up in the paper he wrapped my gifts from him and put to Vic from: Taffy and Sam ( the cats...LOL) on the tag..I was livid, particularly when I really wanted an opal ring ( which is way cheaper than that drill...lol) and he wouldn't get it..( waste of money, ,rings were dumb)and because he thought me buying underwear etc was a waste of money...sigh....lol..in reality, I wouldn't mind so much if there wasn't a double standard about it...

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

The GOP is afraid of its voters. Literally afraid for their lives.

Anyone who can be so easily inseminated has no place in politics.

So let’s then revisit the “guilt by association” thing that limo and others keep trying to purport.

This is a great example of exactly that. There is a report that some Republicans who were spoken too fear for their lives, and you read that as the "GOP" as a group is fearful. Your inability to think outside of the group leads you to apply every negative you see to the entire group. This is guilt by association.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

It was the dang expensive tools that drove me nuts...especially the time he bought himself a right angle drill ( it was on sale...lol..sigh) at Christmas time, when he was complaining we were spending too much money on Christmas ( and really , how many times does he need a right angle drill, not like he needed it for work), and wrapped it up in the paper he wrapped my gifts from him and put to Vic from: Taffy and Sam ( the cats...LOL) on the tag..I was livid, particularly when I really wanted an opal ring ( which is way cheaper than that drill...lol) and he wouldn't get it..( waste of money, ,rings were dumb)and because he thought me buying underwear etc was a waste of money...sigh....lol..in reality, I wouldn't mind so much if there wasn't a double standard about it...

I think what we are talking about is a little different. We are talking about the conversations with our wives before we buy. Not after. At least I was and I think @Whynotsomething? was too, but he can correct me if I missunderstood.

[Z is for Zangie]

It was the dang expensive tools that drove me nuts...especially the time he bought himself a right angle drill ( it was on sale...lol..sigh) at Christmas time, when he was complaining we were spending too much money on Christmas ( and really , how many times does he need a right angle drill, not like he needed it for work), and wrapped it up in the paper he wrapped my gifts from him and put to Vic from: Taffy and Sam ( the cats...LOL) on the tag..I was livid, particularly when I really wanted an opal ring ( which is way cheaper than that drill...lol) and he wouldn't get it..( waste of money, ,rings were dumb)and because he thought me buying underwear etc was a waste of money...sigh....lol..in reality, I wouldn't mind so much if there wasn't a double standard about it...

I think what we are talking about is a little different. We are talking about the conversations with our wives before we buy. Not after. At least I was and I think @Whynotsomething? was too, but he can correct me if I missunderstood.

Well, we had those too...this is just the overall annoyance with the whole tools were important and we could afford them no matter what, but anything I wanted we couldn't...and that time he took it too far...I think it is a similar feeling, if this particular time it was done behind my back..they were plenty of disagreements before something was bought

[Mike]

Oy. This is not “all blacks are ______” or “all chinamen do ________”. THAT is “guilt by association”.
And I did not say each and every single Republican out there is doing this.

This is guilt by behavior. A far different thing than the stereotyping involved in guilt by association.

Again, trump received the votes of 74 million people. Even after four years of those people knowing this is exactly who he is, exactly how he behaves.
Those 74 million people are not guilty by association.
They are guilty by direct enablement. They CHOSE to have that again, knowing full well what would be in store.
They knew he was setting up raging mobs. They saw it already, in Charlottesville and elsewhere. They chose to have more of that, those 74 million voters.
Every single one of them is responsible for his acts, and the acts of those acting on his behalf.

Hidden text.

The GOP is afraid of its voters. Literally afraid for their lives.

Anyone who can be so easily inseminated has no place in politics.

So let’s then revisit the “guilt by association” thing that limo and others keep trying to purport.

This is a great example of exactly that. There is a report that some Republicans who were spoken too fear for their lives, and you read that as the "GOP" as a group is fearful. Your inability to think outside of the group leads you to apply every negative you see to the entire group. This is guilt by association.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

And I did not say each and every single Republican out there is doing this.

What you said was "The GOP is afraid of it's voters" that would imply the entirety of that group. If that isn't what you meant I can accept that. You speak in absolutes where groups are concerned, and then you are surprised when people take you for what you say. Of course this is a problem with everyone else. No need for you to adjust your behavior not at all. Mike is the pillar of perfection.

Again, trump received the votes of 74 million people. Even after four years of those people knowing this is exactly who he is, exactly how he behaves.
Those 74 million people are not guilty by association.

That depends on the guilt you are applying. Those people supported Trump, but even if not a single one of them voted for him he'd still be acting the same way that is in his nature. They don't own Trump's actions. You seem to mistake the idea that people should have seen this comping with the fact that they did. There is no doubt some did and some did not see this coming. Simply voting for someone doesn't make you responsible for every action they commit.

You continuously take an example of the group and then apply your opinions to the entire group as fact. When you do it against those you don't like you play it off as common sense. When you do it to those you wish to defend you play it off as altruism. No mater your excuse you are consistently lumping people into groups, take some example from that group and applying it to the rest. I don't know if you could escape your group think if you tried, but the scary part is you don't even try.

[Whynotsomething?]

We are talking about the conversations with our wives before we buy. Not after. At least I was and I think @Whynotsomething? was too, but he can correct me if I missunderstood.

Yeah, it was definitely before.

[Whynotsomething?]

I'm listening to the impeachment debate in the House and the basic argument from a lot of the Republicans against impeaching Trump is: "Our voters are SO fucking crazy, that even though he probably deserves it, if you remove Trump from office early, Trump's hard-core supporters will try to kill a bunch of people.".

That's pretty much the same as arguing that "you should just give the Mob what they want and maybe they won't hurt us."

They're not even trying to hide how insane a good size chunk of their voters are anymore. They're admitting it. That's how out-of-control this whole thing has gotten.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

We are talking about the conversations with our wives before we buy. Not after. At least I was and I think @Whynotsomething? was too, but he can correct me if I missunderstood.

Yeah, it was definitely before.

I like keeping my wife around

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

They're not even trying to hide how insane a good size chunk of their voters are anymore. They're admitting it. That's how out-of-control this whole thing has gotten.

It seems crazy is the new normal.

[Tarmaque]

Bwahahahahaha!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1254103

Carrotface von Golfcart is so screwed. I suspect being a jackass is going to bankrupt him, and his family.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Bwahahahahaha!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1254103

Carrotface von Golfcart is so screwed. I suspect being a jackass is going to bankrupt him, and his family.

Again you mean?

[Mike]

Remember just a couple days ago where you took me literally, while giving some other writer plenty of leeway?
Here, you are not only taking me literally... but projecting something onto me that is preposterous. I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again: for you (or others) to project me as meaning each and every last member of a group when attributing something to a group is idiotic.

I don’t go shrieking “you said it about each and every liberal!” When you or your pals limo and Eryk attribute something to liberals.
Please, stop with the bullshit already. You continue, as you always have, to seek ways to avoid the point in a conversation. It’s a Gingrich tactic.

And I did not say each and every single Republican out there is doing this.

What you said was "The GOP is afraid of it's voters" that would imply the entirety of that group. If that isn't what you meant I can accept that. You speak in absolutes where groups are concerned, and then you are surprised when people take you for what you say. Of course this is a problem with everyone else. No need for you to adjust your behavior not at all. Mike is the pillar of perfection.

Again, trump received the votes of 74 million people. Even after four years of those people knowing this is exactly who he is, exactly how he behaves.
Those 74 million people are not guilty by association.

That depends on the guilt you are applying. Those people supported Trump, but even if not a single one of them voted for him he'd still be acting the same way that is in his nature. They don't own Trump's actions. You seem to mistake the idea that people should have seen this comping with the fact that they did. There is no doubt some did and some did not see this coming. Simply voting for someone doesn't make you responsible for every action they commit.

You continuously take an example of the group and then apply your opinions to the entire group as fact. When you do it against those you don't like you play it off as common sense. When you do it to those you wish to defend you play it off as altruism. No mater your excuse you are consistently lumping people into groups, take some example from that group and applying it to the rest. I don't know if you could escape your group think if you tried, but the scary part is you don't even try.

[Tarmaque]

Bwahahahahaha!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1254103

Carrotface von Golfcart is so screwed. I suspect being a jackass is going to bankrupt him, and his family.

Again you mean?

The implication is it will stick this time, and he'll end up on the streets. There aren't any sketchy Banks left to loan him any money.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Remember just a couple days ago where you took me literally, while giving some other writer plenty of leeway?
Here, you are not only taking me literally... but projecting something onto me that is preposterous. I’ve said this before but I’ll say it again: for you (or others) to project me as meaning each and every last member of a group when attributing something to a group is idiotic.

What is idiotic is for you to repeatedly use verbiage attacking a group as a whole, then defend that assessment being applied to everyone in a group, and then acting like it's everyone else's issue when you get called out for it. You are extremely intellectually lazy. Every time that puts you in a corner you try to blame everyone else. You literally will do anything to avoid self reflection. It's incredible. I'm sure your lack of self reflection is somehow my fault too.

I don’t go shrieking “you said it about each and every liberal!”

I don't post about "liberals" so you have never had the opportunity. I might respond to such a post and use the language, but often my response to words like "liberal", "conservative", "right" and "left" start with "That depends on what you mean by....". These words all have nebulous meanings and cause more confusion then they bring clarity. The fact that you cling to your definition as the one true definition and reject anything that falls outside of it is a great example as to why. I don't think about people in terms of group affiliation and really try to avoid talking about people as a group at all. So, your attempt at pointing the finger at me is misguided here.

Just for fun I did a quick search of my user name and the word "liberal" on this site. I've have used the word exactly 38 times in over 4,000 posts here. (There are 45 entries but 7 of them are me responding to a thread that had the word liberal in the tittle) Most of the time the word is in quotes, every time but one I am responding to a post or articles use of the word. The one exception is a post in 4E where I talk about the fact that the founding father's were liberal. You on the other hand have used the word Conservative in 118 times in over 2000 posts. That doesn't include the time you use other terms to attack the group. Maybe that helps you to see the difference. Probably not

When you or your pals limo and Eryk attribute something to liberals.

This is another great example of your inescapable group think. You haven't even noticed that @Eryk and I don't often get along well. As for @limoman he and I are friendly but I don't know him all that well. There are two active members on here I consider very close friends and they would both identify as "liberal". Yet you always want to hold me accountable for things Eryk and Limo say. That's not only guilt by association, but guilt by presumed association.

I don't mean any insult to @Eryk or @limoman I'm just pointing out the nonsense of your insistence that we are somehow in a team together.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Bwahahahahaha!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1254103

Carrotface von Golfcart is so screwed. I suspect being a jackass is going to bankrupt him, and his family.

Again you mean?

The implication is it will stick this time, and he'll end up on the streets. There aren't any sketchy Banks left to loan him any money.

Don't ruin my fun my injecting logic!

In all seriousness, I doubt it. He's probably going to build a very lucrative media empire of disinformation.