Tuesday Topics ...(PO)

[Z is for Zangie]

I'd say the big story for tomorrow is that someone apparently leaked a draft from the Supreme Court ( which they is unprecedented) to Politico indicating the majority of the court wants to totally strike Roe Vs Wade down...sigh both for my personal views and for the possibility for some more unrest....sigh...not to mention the politics of it all and the midterms...

[Tarmaque]

I'd say the big story for tomorrow is that someone apparently leaked a draft from the Supreme Court ( which they is unprecedented) to Politico indicating the majority of the court wants to totally strike Roe Vs Wade down

This is hardly a surprise. At least one Trump justice is a known advocate for striking down RvW, the two other Trump justices were chosen specifically for their "radical" conservative views and are not a surprise. Add that to Thomas and Alito who's views have always fallen that direction.

What I think will be more news is how twisted their logic will be for striking it down, and if they somehow argue for "fetal personhood."

[Mike]

I doubt they will make that ‘personhood’ argument. The leak is pretty clear where they will go with this. They will portray it as a states-rights issue.

Remember, in the US conservative worldview a state has immense rights to do as it wishes with its citizenry. In this case, they are taking control of women’s bodies away from those currently controlling them…. They are taking control away from the women themselves, and handing control over those bodies to the several States.

[Slip Shod]

I try to stay away from the subject; it's volatile and upsetting to many. From what I recall if it is overturned, aside from anyone's personal views and interpretations, it will be overturned on the basis of legal technicalities of how the original interpretation which was handed down of the Constitution was a 'reaching' interpretation of privacy.

[Tarmaque]

I try to stay away from the subject; it's volatile and upsetting to many. From what I recall if it is overturned, aside from anyone's personal views and interpretations, it will be overturned on the basis of legal technicalities of how the original interpretation which was handed down of the Constitution was a 'reaching' interpretation of privacy.

If you go and read the leak, it boils down to Alito rather emotionally saying that the previous court was blatantly wrong. It has few legal arguments in it. It's a highly emotional document, and depends almost solely the fact that the Constitution doesn't specifically refer to abortion anywhere. Which is true, but then again, most anti-abortionists base their arguments on The Bible which also doesn't specifically mention abortion either. He also makes some scary irrelevant racial comments that basically boil down to "black women get more abortions than white women and they must be stopped!"

[Slip Shod]

I try to stay away from the subject; it's volatile and upsetting to many. From what I recall if it is overturned, aside from anyone's personal views and interpretations, it will be overturned on the basis of legal technicalities of how the original interpretation which was handed down of the Constitution was a 'reaching' interpretation of privacy.

If you go and read the leak, it boils down to Alito rather emotionally saying that the previous court was blatantly wrong. It has few legal arguments in it. It's a highly emotional document, and depends almost solely the fact that the Constitution doesn't specifically refer to abortion anywhere. Which is true, but then again, most anti-abortionists base their arguments on The Bible which also doesn't specifically mention abortion either. He also makes some scary irrelevant racial comments that basically boil down to "black women get more abortions than white women and they must be stopped!"

Whatever the outcome ..

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[Mike]

Not that I wish this to occur… but what if the opponents of this overturning of Roe behave in the same way as those who attempted to overturn the election?

[Slip Shod]

Not that I wish this to occur… but what if the opponents of this overturning of Roe behave in the same way as those who attempted to overturn the election?

In any instance, bad behavior is never acceptable.

[Senor Natural]

It just goes to show you that 2 of Trump's nominees blatantly lied in the confirmation hearings - Kavanaugh and Gorsuch, and they should be impeached from the court.
This is the most activist court I've ever seen, and it is activist in the direction of regression.

[Mike]

Soooo… let’s discuss why suck a leak might occur, and then who might do the leaking.

First thought of course is a liberal aide to one of the justices, or perhaps even a liberal Justice him/her self. In a time of bad blood, it’s easy to imagine someone deciding the nation should see this before it gets edited twenty times before issuance in summer. Makes some sense, right?

Well, not really. You see, if this is the pending decision and everyone knows it, then it would give conservo-religious states across the nation advance notice that things are clearing for them - and they would then have their bills ready to roll, in order to outlaw abortion immediately the day after the Court officially issues its decision. That is not something that defenders of women’s freedom would want.

Ahhhh, but….. it IS something that antiabortionists across those states would want!
Additionally, doing this is guaranteed to roil everyone up on all sides. Again, that nowadays plays to those who dress to the right….

If you wonder why I am so big on discussing motive, here it is. By discerning motive, we can figure out who did what and who will do what. It might yet turn out to be a pissed-off liberal. Who knows. But the likelihood, based on motives and potential results, points to starboard.

[Slip Shod]

@mike. - going out on the limb guessing motives. That's why I'm against these hate crime laws . Prosecution for crimes committed, sure I get that. But how can you prosecute for what you believe someone may have been thinking ? I don't get it. That would require the court to have a crystal ball. Thats prosecuting on presumption. Totally opposite of innocent till proven guilty, it's something that cannot be known .
Let's test it out, what am I thinking right now is that a hate crime? Or what are you thinking is that a hate crime?

[Mike]

MTG just put out a statement calling this leaked SCOTUS ruling a victory for God.

Obviously the bimbette Bible-thumper has never actually read her Bible. If she did, certainly Numbers 5:11 - 31 would have registered with her.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

What is this passage, if not an outright prescription for medically-induced abortion? Deploying the “medical knowledge” of the time, of course, but it is a religious demand for direct human intervention to end a pregnancy. Not one of rape or incest, incidentally… but one where the woman chose to screw around.

Thus proving what we’ve always known: the antiabortion movement is not about the supposed sanctity of life. The movement’s REAL motivations are far different. That they attempt to cloak it in God is sinister.

[Slip Shod]

@mike
Sinister is not a word that I use lightly or irrehensible either. But your use of the word reminded me of that damn chili I got at Wendy's yesterday - Tabasco sauce and chili beans, that's it, no meat, no green peppers, no onions. Pure sinister. I thought I had forgotten about it.. owe you one Mike

[Tarmaque]

Sinister is not a word that I use lightly or irrehensible either

"Sinister" quite literally means "left." "Dexter" means "right. (From your point of view. Much like "stage left" and "stage right," as opposed to "audience left" and "audience right." But not like "port" on a ship is to the observer's left if the observer is facing forward, but is to the observer's right if they are facing aft.) The metaphor of sinister as evil or harmful comes from the superstition back in the middle ages that left handed people were untrustworthy or evil. Utter nonsense of course, but the metaphor persists. To the point where now the metaphor has become the accepted definition.

[Slip Shod]

[quote=Tarmaque
[/quote]

"Sinister" quite literally means "left." "Dexter" means "right. (From your point of view. Much like "stage left" and "stage right," as opposed to "audience left" and "audience right." But not like "port" on a ship is to the observer's left if the observer is facing forward, but is to the observer's right if they are facing aft.) The metaphor of sinister as evil or harmful comes from the superstition back in the middle ages that left handed people were untrustworthy or evil. Utter nonsense of course, but the metaphor persists. To the point where now the metaphor has become the accepted definition.
[/quote]
Really, that's where you want to go ? With a definition from 500 years ago. 1400 - 1500's . That's 200 years before this place was even a country. What a crazy rebuke you put on me, okay .

[Slip Shod]

It just goes to show you that 2 of Trump's nominees blatantly lied in the confirmation hearings - Kavanaugh and Gorsuch, and they should be impeached from the court.
This is the most activist court I've ever seen, and it is activist in the direction of regression.

Blatantly lied. Perhaps, but then again we are talking politics right? All I want to see is an even playing field - with the standard you use apply it across the board. I'll play devil's advocate here for the sake of the argument and what we're talking about here is blatant lying. It's an accepted fact now that the Russian collusion that was perpetrated on Trump was a blatant lie. And I believe the New York times offered an apology, a correction. Oh, but that's ancient history now let's talk about today's politics, not yesterday's.
Señor, you place me in this position because you consistently bash one side without addressing extremes of the other. You're certainly free to do so but I just wanted to point that out
And I'll say for Trump's age he's probably got a head full of gray hair - he could have done better than Orange. I wouldn't have gone that way

[Tarmaque]

Really, that's where you want to go ? With a definition from 500 years ago. 1400 - 1500's . That's 200 years before this place was even a country. What a crazy rebuke you put on me, okay .

Just showing off how much of a word nerd I am. Bask in my glow.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Leaking the document was really strange. It just shows where we are at as a culture. It's not about what is best, its about what serves my view.

This is a tough one for me. As far as the constitution stands the argument is sound and has always been true. I do believe the moral correct position is for abortion to be legal as long as no public funds are supporting it. For that to be the case we need to pass an amendment. For a very long time we have been using the courts to circumvent this process. Yet another way that congress avoids doing their jobs.

[Tarmaque]

I do believe the moral correct position is for abortion to be legal

Oh gods yes. The fewer children of people too stupid to functionally use birth control the better.

Of course the joker to that statement is that the same people who oppose abortion tend to also oppose birth control. And child care, and welfare for new mothers. Etc etc, until the cows come home.

Now me personally, I think there's WAY too many people on this old earth as it is. Any way to decrease their numbers without nuking my playground is a good thing. Perhaps an open season?

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Oh gods yes. The fewer children of people too stupid to functionally use birth control the better.

You made me spit water out of my nose at work.

Of course the joker to that statement is that the same people who oppose abortion tend to also oppose birth control.

That's really just those wild and crazy Catholics and a few offshoot sects.

And child care, and welfare for new mothers. Etc etc, until the cows come home.

That is because of the unholly union between the GOP and the Religious right. "You want to join the GOP and don't have anything in common with our platform? Sorry... wait whats that, you hate Democrats? You're in!"

Now me personally, I think there's WAY too many people on this old earth as it is. Any way to decrease their numbers without nuking my playground is a good thing. Perhaps an open season?

A guy at work has proposed a Purge day, but the kicker is you can only hunt politicians and no hiding behind security. It's kind of unrelated but might help your issue too. It would also take care of term limits. Old people don't run as fast.

[Tarmaque]

A guy at work has proposed a Purge day, but the kicker is you can only hunt politicians and no hiding behind security. It's kind of unrelated but might help your issue too. It would also take care of term limits. Old people don't run as fast.

Sign me up. I have a box of ammo loaded specifically for them.