(Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

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(Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:43 am

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/01/11202357 ... -democracy
President Biden on Thursday warned Americans that democracy is under attack from a faction of the Republican party led by former President Donald Trump, and called on Democrats, mainstream Republicans and independents to "speak up, speak out, get engaged — vote, vote vote."

In a rare prime time speech, Biden attacked his predecessor, saying that "too much of what's happening in our country today isn't normal." The speech came just two months ahead of midterm congressional elections, where Democrats are fighting to keep their slim majorities in the Senate and House of Representatives.

Biden said the Republican party is "dominated, driven, intimidated by Donald Trump" and his supporters, calling it "a threat to this country."

"They refuse to accept the results of a free election. And they're working right now as I speak in state after state to give the power to decide elections in America to partisans and cronies, empowering election deniers to undermine democracy itself," Biden said, speaking outside Independence National Historical Park in downtown Philadelphia.

The White House claimed it was not a political speech, but Biden launched multiple political broadsides against Trump and his supporters. He called them "MAGA Republicans" — referring to the 'Make America Great Again' slogan used by the former president.
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"Donald Trump and the MAGA Republicans represent an extremism that threatens the very foundations of our republic," he said.
Biden is looking to capitalize on recent momentum, strategists say

After months of struggling in the polls, Biden is seeking to capitalize on a series of legislative wins, concerns about the impact of the Supreme Court's abortion ruling --- and from ongoing coverage of Trump's legal problems, said Doug Sosnik, a former adviser to President Bill Clinton.
Why Biden is reviving his 'soul of the nation' argument for the midterm elections
Politics
Why Biden is reviving his 'soul of the nation' argument for the midterm elections

"The real power of the presidency is understanding the use of the bully pulpit," Sosnik said. "The better your standing with the American public, the more likely you are to have an impact with the speech."

Ben Tulchin, a Democratic pollster, praised Biden and his team for shifting their strategy and taking on Republicans more directly.

He said Biden is wise to establish more contrast between himself and Trump and the Republicans. "Every hero needs a villain," Tulchin said. "And Donald Trump plays a very good villain."
Republicans said Biden was being divisive

Speaking ahead of the address, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy called on Biden to apologize.

"President Biden has chosen to divide, demean, and disparage his fellow Americans — why? Simply because they disagree with his policies," McCarthy said in his own speech from Pennsylvania. "That is not leadership."

Biden sought to make clear that he was not criticizing all Republicans, calling on mainstream Republicans to reject that wing of their party.

"We are not powerless in the face of these threats. We are not bystanders in this ongoing attack on democracy," he said. "There are far more Americans, far more Americans from every background and belief who reject the extreme MAGA ideology than those that accept it. "



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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:48 am

Things like this are the main reason I regret voting for Biden. I don't like Trump. I don't agree with most of what he says, and I find him a despicable human being. Is he a danger to Democracy? No, he's not. Our system has prove at every point to be stronger then Trump and his stupidity. Biden is in full mid term attack mode, and it really isn't helpful right now.

It makes me think of a story I heard today. A guy at work in camping in Oregon and went to a farmer's market. There a guy was wearing a "All Republicans are Racist" T-shirt. That kind of memeish response is easy. It doesn't take any thought or energy, and on the great wide interweb it will get you lots of up votes from people already in your corner. And those up votes will get you those much loved dopamine hits, just like heroine baby. The problem is these kinds of attacks have no real world value. They immediately turn away anyone who doesn't already agree with you, and simply perpetuate hatred and anger. Then when it all burns these same people flock to their facebook accounts to blame everyone else. I think the world would be a much different place if social media sites had mirrors.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:51 am

I'm not certain that this was the right time for Biden to give this particular speech. Right now Trump is cutting his own throat at every opportunity following the execution of this search and seizure of documents under a lawful warrant at his Florida "home." As always, when your opponent is swallowing his own foot be sure to give him time to choke on it.

In general I agree with Biden's speech, but I disagree with the decision to give it right now. I don't think it helps. Hopefully it won't hurt.

(Perhaps it was a tactical decision to try to draw attention away from the DOJ and its investigation? If so it's a little ham-handed. I don't think it will work.)

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:56 am

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:51 am
I'm not certain that this was the right time for Biden to give this particular speech. Right now Trump is cutting his own throat at every opportunity following the execution of this search and seizure of documents under a lawful warrant at his Florida "home." As always, when your opponent is swallowing his own foot be sure to give him time to choke on it.
I don't think it's about Trump, I think it's about about keeping control of the house and hoping to get the senate too. Trumps isn't a threat, Biden is smart enough to know that.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:01 am

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 2:56 am
I don't think it's about Trump, I think it's about about keeping control of the house and hoping to get the senate too. Trumps isn't a threat, Biden is smart enough to know that.
Actually, right now letting Trump be Trump as publicly as possible is an asset. He's had a series of his candidates lose primaries, and his candidate has allowed Alaska to flip its one seat from Republican to Democrat. The bigger a buffoon he makes of himself the less his endorsement means in the upcoming election. Already some prominent Republicans are starting to distance themselves from him. Others have their own legal problems. (Hi Lindsey Graham!) I think it's possible for the Democrats to gain a seat in the Senate, and succeed in keeping their majority in the House. In spite of Biden rather than because of him.

(Opinions expressed in this post are my own, and bear no relationship to reality. I've been known to be wrong before. Repeatedly. It doesn't stop me from trying.)

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Senor Natural » Fri Sep 02, 2022 9:37 am

It was a political campaign speech to put the MAGA hats on the defensive for supporting Turnip and his insurrection on Jan. 6 2021.
It is 2 months from the election.
It is framing the opposition.
Everything he said is true and verifiable.
It will not turn off independents nor millennials, who are the key to winning majorities in 2022.
It keeps the insurrection and Turnip's part in it fresh in the minds of the voters.
It also truthfully focuses the attention on candidates in the GOP that openly support Turnip and have denied or minimized the insurrection, and keeps that fresh in the minds of the voters who will most influence the election.
It was bold (citizens like that) and it was truthful (good citizens like the truth.)
He also beat the GOP to the punch and has now framed them in such a way they are on the defensive.
We are not against women's rights, we did not support the insurrection, we are not bigoted, we are not trying to suppress the vote will all ring hollow now based on their recent actions.
Smooth move, Joe, smooth move . . .

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:22 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 5:01 am
Actually, right now letting Trump be Trump as publicly as possible is an asset. He's had a series of his candidates lose primaries, and his candidate has allowed Alaska to flip its one seat from Republican to Democrat. The bigger a buffoon he makes of himself the less his endorsement means in the upcoming election. Already some prominent Republicans are starting to distance themselves from him. Others have their own legal problems. (Hi Lindsey Graham!) I think it's possible for the Democrats to gain a seat in the Senate, and succeed in keeping their majority in the House. In spite of Biden rather than because of him.
You are probably right. I think we are talking about it from different perspectives. You are looking at it as it's political value. I'm looking at it from the standpoint of what it does to us culturally. I voted for Biden because I think that tribalism is the biggest issue in this country today. (I know you are all shocked and had no ideas :lol:) While tribalism manifests itself in politics it isn't an inherently political issue, it's rising out of our culture. This is a culture that is giving rise in popularity to political figures like Trump, Ocasio-Cortez, DeSantis and Sanders (I can keep going). I voted for Biden not because I thought he would fix this issue, but because I thought he wouldn't do things to make it worse. Here he is adding fuel to that fire for political advantage. It doesn't matter to me weather or not that political advantage manifests, what matters to me is that this is exactly what I was voting against when I voted for Biden. I was wrong. I'm as frustrated with myself as I am Biden

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Senor Natural » Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:46 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribalism
I don't see any tribalism in Biden's speech. He talked about representing all Americans in protecting democracy. Turnip cultists are more tribalist.
Democracy is not anywhere near tribalism, more akin to the opposite.
Biden was calling for the opposite of tribalism

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 4:53 pm

Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:46 pm
I don't see any tribalism in Biden's speech. He talked about representing all Americans in protecting democracy.
It's naturally hard for us to see the dangers of tribalism when it comes from our tribe. The key thing to look for is someone who is defining an in group and an out group. Then presenting the out group as evils and/or excusing flaws of the in group as virtuous mistakes.
Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:46 pm
Turnip cultists are more tribalist.
It would be hard to find people more tribal the Trump and many of his flowers. That doesn't mean lesser degrees of tribalism are without danger.

If I ask you would you rather I steal $5 from you or $1,000 dollars from you? The question creates a false dilemma. Of course you'd rather not be stolen from at all.
Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:46 pm
Democracy is not anywhere near tribalism, more akin to the opposite.
That is a complete non sequitur. Democracy is neither inherently tribal or inherently non-tribal. It is a system of governing. What is tribal is the human mind. So, tribalism is does present itself within democracy, political parties are a perfect example of this. They are inherently tribal.
Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:46 pm
Biden was calling for the opposite of tribalism
No, he's attacking the other and calling it a defense of democracy.

Trump is an authoritarian, which is inherently anti-democratic in nature. Being anti-democratic is very different then being a danger to democracy. Can you give me an example of a way that anything Trump has done has successfully damaged democracy? Even minor. I can't. I can think of policies he's presented that would be damaging, and every one of them has been blocked by at least one of the branches of our government. I'm not saying that our system is immune to authoritarianism, but we have stronger controls then most country, and Trump has shown no ability to successfully circumvent them. I think this is important because the best thing about our system is that it's strong enough to stand up to opposition. We don't need to eliminate opposition to curtail it.

That's just the logistics of this. What is more important is the painting of a diverse section of this country with a broad brush. While many (perhaps even most) Trump supporters are authoritarian. There are also those who are just gamblers by nature. They agree with the policies that Trump is capable of implementing while relying on the system to block those things that are damaging. Are they a danger to democracy because their stomach for risk is higher then most?

It some ways one might say that it is a lack of nuance that makes this speech tribal.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:07 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 3:22 pm
I'm as frustrated with myself as I am Biden
You're looking at it all wrong. In the choice between Biden and Trump the choice was easy. I didn't like the choice of Biden any more than you do, but by the time we got to the general election there basically was no choice. Remember that the more important elections these days are the primaries. Did you vote in the primaries? If so, whom did you vote for? Was it Biden? If you voted for Biden in the primaries and are disappointed then I would say you got what you voted for. If you voted for someone else in the primaries then your disappointment in Biden is more realistic. Biden is a competent President (as opposed to Trump who was not) but not really a good President. He's too much of a politician. He also suffers too much from Obama syndrome; the idea that the other side will work with him if he's just nice to them. A particular condition to Democrats not shared by Republicans.

That said, I voted for Harris in the Primaries and I regret my vote now. As Vice President she's shown a lot of weakness and I wouldn't vote for her in the primaries again.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:15 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:07 pm
You're looking at it all wrong. In the choice between Biden and Trump the choice was easy.
I think this is a fundamental difference in how we see general elections. While you are right that the choice between Trump and Biden is easy, I don't see the election that way at all. I'm always willing to vote third party. I wish I would have voted for Jo Jorgensen. Keep in mind that I'm well aware my vote is always meaningless. All my electorates are voting for the donkey even if the candidate really was Cthulhu.
Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:07 pm
Did you vote in the primaries? If so, whom did you vote for? Was it Biden? If you voted for Biden in the primaries and are disappointed then I would say you got what you voted for.
I did and I did. I'm not sure what I would have done differently in the primaries now. I liked Globashard more but I think she was out by the CA primary, even if she wasn't I felt Biden had a better chance to beat Trump. Yang is catching my attention more recently, but he did a terrible job being more then a one issue candidate.
Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:07 pm
He also suffers too much from Obama syndrome; the idea that the other side will work with him if he's just nice to them.
My problem is that he hasn't been particularly nice to them. At least in my view. But I'm less interested in niceties then I am in respect and grace.

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:07 pm
That said, I voted for Harris in the Primaries and I regret my vote now. As Vice President she's shown a lot of weakness and I wouldn't vote for her in the primaries again.
I hate to say I told you so... Wait that's a lie, I love it.

I told you so.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:25 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:15 pm
I hate to say I told you so... Wait that's a lie, I love it.

I told you so.
I'd love to say I care that you told me so, but I don't.

I'm beginning to think that Klobuchar was the better choice now. Yang was never a good choice, but any of them would be better than Trump. I think that Corey Booker would have had a better chance against Trump though, even though Klobuchar would have been a better President. Maybe. Hindsight is great and all and we can all muse about might-have-beens until the cows come home. We have to live with what we have today.

All I can really say is I REALLY hope Biden doesn't decide to run again. Please don't make me make that choice again! (Best case scenario is both Biden and Trump die of improbable horrible accidents before the next election that can never be traced back to me.)

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:19 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:25 pm
I think that Corey Booker would have had a better chance against Trump though
In today's world that might be true. He had that "This is my Spartacus moment" that damaged him in some ways. He's someone I have a hard time nailing down sometimes and that makes me nervous.
Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:25 pm
All I can really say is I REALLY hope Biden doesn't decide to run again. Please don't make me make that choice again! (Best case scenario is both Biden and Trump die of improbable horrible accidents before the next election that can never be traced back to me.)
If we could get them alone in a room together there is a good chance it ends in double heart attack.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:59 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:19 pm
In today's world that might be true. He had that "This is my Spartacus moment" that damaged him in some ways. He's someone I have a hard time nailing down sometimes and that makes me nervous.
While Biden is too much a product of the political culture in Washington, I think Booker is not enough of one. I think he's a good guy, but possibly to the point of naivete. However he's got good executive experience and is about the right age. Please no more septuagenarians.
GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 7:19 pm
If we could get them alone in a room together there is a good chance it ends in double heart attack.
Send them both into the Thunderdome. My money is on Biden. Sure he fell off a bicycle, but I have my doubts Carrotface von Golfcart has ever ridden one. (I also think Biden might actually know how to use a chainsaw. Trumpendejo? Hahahahahaha!)

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Senor Natural » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:00 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:25 pm
GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:15 pm
I hate to say I told you so... Wait that's a lie, I love it.

I told you so.
I'd love to say I care that you told me so, but I don't.

I'm beginning to think that Klobuchar was the better choice now. Yang was never a good choice, but any of them would be better than Trump. I think that Corey Booker would have had a better chance against Trump though, even though Klobuchar would have been a better President. Maybe. Hindsight is great and all and we can all muse about might-have-beens until the cows come home. We have to live with what we have today.

All I can really say is I REALLY hope Biden doesn't decide to run again. Please don't make me make that choice again! (Best case scenario is both Biden and Trump die of improbable horrible accidents before the next election that can never be traced back to me.)
I voted for Klobuchar in the primary, too. I think she and John Tester would make a great president/vice President combination.
I don't think the great majority of the American public wants anybody from the ends of the political spectrum, would rather have middle of the road, objective executive branch.
I would rather see more progressives in congress, though, and a moderate executive branch could moderate progressive initiatives that go too far.
There is no reason to have any kind of regressive in congress or in the presidency. Essentially, they are anti-constitutional, and as a result, are anti-American. They want to re-define the country as something it is not and has never been.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Senor Natural » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:04 pm

Biden's speech was a near perfect 'political' speech for a campaign. It is having the desired effect, that of putting the GOP on the defensive without much of a defense.
It was about motivating voters.
I'll stay with my assessment of his speech as being correct.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:49 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:59 pm
While Biden is too much a product of the political culture in Washington, I think Booker is not enough of one. I think he's a good guy, but possibly to the point of naivete. However he's got good executive experience and is about the right age. Please no more septuagenarians.
That might be it. I just don't have a good read. Like I said my reservations aren't personal And I've tried
Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:59 pm
Send them both into the Thunderdome. My money is on Biden. Sure he fell off a bicycle, but I have my doubts Carrotface von Golfcart has ever ridden one. (I also think Biden might actually know how to use a chainsaw. Trumpendejo? Hahahahahaha!)
.

My thought is it doesn't matter who wins, they are going to drop dead after anyway. That might change if we introduce weapons.

My guess is Trump's daddy paid other kids to ride bikes for him

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:50 pm

Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:04 pm
Biden's speech was a near perfect 'political' speech for a campaign. It is having the desired effect, that of putting the GOP on the defensive without much of a defense.
It was about motivating voters.
I'll stay with my assessment of his speech as being correct.
In today's culture you may be right. I just don't see that is a good thing.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:24 am

Hoo boy. Apparently in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York is a bar filled with President Trump Memorabilia. Among them are these. Now I'm not saying this folder is anything particularly top secret, but it does kinda show the respect El Donaldo has for documents and information. To him, they're little more than window dressing for his businesses.
Classified.png
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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Senor Natural » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:34 am

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:50 pm
Senor Natural wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 10:04 pm
Biden's speech was a near perfect 'political' speech for a campaign. It is having the desired effect, that of putting the GOP on the defensive without much of a defense.
It was about motivating voters.
I'll stay with my assessment of his speech as being correct.
In today's culture you may be right. I just don't see that is a good thing.
It is neither good nor bad. Those assessments are personal.
The speech was political, and as a political speech, it was excellent.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:34 am

Tarmaque wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:24 am
Hoo boy. Apparently in the lobby of Trump Tower in New York is a bar filled with President Trump Memorabilia. Among them are these. Now I'm not saying this folder is anything particularly top secret, but it does kinda show the respect El Donaldo has for documents and information. To him, they're little more than window dressing for his businesses.
While he was in office the man regular used classified documents the way I used to use the Xmen 1 that my uncle gave me as a kid. I out grew it, and no harm could come from flaunting a comic book.

My brother later shredded it because he was made at me.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:35 am

Tarmaque wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2022 6:25 pm
I'd love to say I care that you told me so, but I don't.
All joking aside, I hope you you care enough to take my head when I tell you that Newsom is ever more of a scumbag then Harris.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:37 am

Senor Natural wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:34 am
The speech was political, and as a political speech, it was excellent.
I guess that depends on what you measure is for an excellent political speach. If you think demonizing your opponent at the expense of a country teetering on brink of political violence is excellent... okay.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by Tarmaque » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:49 am

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:34 am
While he was in office the man regular used classified documents the way I used to use the Xmen 1 that my uncle gave me as a kid. I out grew it, and no harm could come from flaunting a comic book.

My brother later shredded it because he was made at me.
Back in the 60's my Grandfather was a Ford dealer. One of the premiums he got back in 1964 was a FoMoCo branded in a blue and white box, plastic toy Mustang that ran on batteries. Do you know what that is worth to a collector these days? It was immaculate, in its original box, and it lived on a shelf in his closet.

Until the late 80's when one Christmas he decided to give it to his grandkids to play with. They younger ones beat it all to hell, and threw the original box away (including the card you could send in for a real gas motor for it!

I could have killed him.

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Re: (Friday PO) Biden attacks Trump, saying his wing of the Republican party is a threat to democracy

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:38 am

Tarmaque wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:49 am
I could have killed him.
I guess I'm not the only one.

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