An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

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An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:13 am

An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

WASHINGTON — In a stark repudiation of Donald Trump's legal arguments, a federal appeals court on Wednesday permitted the Justice Department to resume its use of classified records seized from the former president's Florida estate as part of its ongoing criminal investigation.

The ruling from a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit amounts to an overwhelming victory for the Justice Department, clearing the way for investigators to continue scrutinizing the documents as they consider whether to bring criminal charges over the storage of of top-secret records at Mar-a-Lago after Trump left the White House. In lifting a hold on a core aspect of the department's probe, the court removed an obstacle that could have delayed the investigation by weeks.

The appeals court also pointedly noted that Trump had presented no evidence that he had declassified the sensitive records, as he maintained as recently as Wednesday, and rejected the possibility that Trump could have an "individual interest in or need for" the roughly 100 documents with classification markings that were seized by the FBI in its Aug. 8 search of the Palm Beach property.

The government had argued that its investigation had been impeded, and national security concerns swept aside, by an order from U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon that temporarily barred investigators from continuing to use the documents in its inquiry. Cannon, a Trump appointee, had said the hold would remain in place pending a separate review by an independent arbiter she had appointed at the Trump team's request to review the records.

The appeals panel agreed with the Justice Department's concerns.

"It is self-evident that the public has a strong interest in ensuring that the storage of the classified records did not result in 'exceptionally grave damage to the national security,'" they wrote. "Ascertaining that," they added, "necessarily involves reviewing the documents, determining who had access to them and when, and deciding which (if any) sources or methods are compromised."

An injunction that delayed or prevented the criminal investigation "from using classified materials risks imposing real and significant harm on the United States and the public," they wrote.

Two of the three judges who issued Wednesday's ruling — Britt Grant and Andrew Brasher — were nominated to the 11th Circuit by Trump. Judge Robin Rosenbaum was nominated by former President Barack Obama.

Lawyers for Trump did not return an email seeking comment on whether they would appeal the ruling. The Justice Department did not have an immediate comment.

The FBI last month seized roughly 11,000 documents, including about 100 with classification markings, during a court-authorized search of the Palm Beach club. It has launched a criminal investigation into whether the records were mishandled or compromised, though is not clear whether Trump or anyone else will be charged.

Cannon ruled on Sept. 5 that she would name an independent arbiter, or special master, to do an independent review of those records and segregate any that may be covered by claims of attorney-client privilege or executive privilege and to determine whether any of the materials should be returned to Trump.

Raymond Dearie, the former chief judge of the federal court based in Brooklyn, has been named to the role and held his first meeting on Tuesday with lawyers for both sides.

The Justice Department had argued that a special master review of the classified documents was not necessary. It said Trump had no plausible basis to invoke executive privilege over the documents, nor could the records be covered by attorney-client privilege because they do not involve communications between Trump and his lawyers.

It had also contested Cannon's order requiring it to provide Dearie and Trump's lawyers with access to the classified material. The court sided with the Justice Department on Wednesday, saying "courts should order review of such materials in only the most extraordinary circumstances. The record does not allow for the conclusion that this is such a circumstance."

Trump has repeatedly maintained that he had declassified the material. In a Fox News Channel interview recorded Wednesday before the appeals court ruling, he said, "If you're the president of the United States, you can declassify just by saying 'It's declassified.'"

Though his lawyers have said a president has absolute authority to declassify information, they have notably stopped short of asserting that the records were declassified. The Trump team this week resisted providing Dearie with any information to support the idea that the records might have been declassified, saying the issue could be part of their defense in the event of an indictment.

The Justice Department has said there is no indication that Trump took any steps to declassify the documents and even included a photo in one court filing of some of the seized documents with colored cover sheets indicating their classified status. The appeals court, too, made the same point.

"Plaintiff suggests that he may have declassified these documents when he was President. But the record contains no evidence that any of these records were declassified," the judges wrote. "In any event, at least for these purposes, the declassification argument is a red herring because declassifying an official document would not change its content or render it personal."


https://www.npr.org/2022/09/21/11244316 ... mar-a-lago



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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:20 am

Methinks this, along with the news of the civil suit for fraud against The Donald and his Three Hench-children, means that he is well and truly fucked. I'm willing to bet there are some new ketchup stains on the wall at Mar a Lago tonight.

I doubt Judge Cannon is having a very good evening either. My guess is a whole lot of box wine and self recrimination. Her reputation has been irreparably scarred by this. Not just a rebuke, but a complete repudiation of her completely unsupportable ruling.

(If someone wants to make this the PO go ahead.)

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am

I heard that on the way home today. That and the threat of nukes from Russia. Crazy day.

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:28 am

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:26 am
That and the threat of nukes from Russia. Crazy day.
Agreed.

Although I doubt Putin is dumb enough to use nukes. I doubt he'd survive that. However just the threat is a bit nutz.

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:55 am

Tarmaque wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:28 am
Although I doubt Putin is dumb enough to use nukes. I doubt he'd survive that. However just the threat is a bit nutz.
I wasn't expecting him to be dumb enough to threaten it....

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:26 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:55 am
I wasn't expecting him to be dumb enough to threaten it....
It's the political equivalent of a dick-pic. "See how manly I am?"

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:40 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 12:26 pm
It's the political equivalent of a dick-pic. "See how manly I am?"
Yeah and from that perspective I'm not surprised, but Putin isn't stupid. He has to know that he's pushing up against a real red line for the world. The only reason he's been able to push this far is that everyone wants to avoid nukes. If he postures enough to make the world think he's going to use them anyway he loses the only leverage he has. It's baffling. Then again, everything he's done since the start of this war is baffling.

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Z is for Zangie » Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:44 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:20 am
Methinks this, along with the news of the civil suit for fraud against The Donald and his Three Hench-children, means that he is well and truly fucked. I'm willing to bet there are some new ketchup stains on the wall at Mar a Lago tonight.

I doubt Judge Cannon is having a very good evening either. My guess is a whole lot of box wine and self recrimination. Her reputation has been irreparably scarred by this. Not just a rebuke, but a complete repudiation of her completely unsupportable ruling.

(If someone wants to make this the PO go ahead.)
I was going to, but, my edit function is gone for some reason, I should be able to edit this, I can do anything else
You probably can though

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:45 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 3:40 pm
but Putin isn't stupid.
I'm not so sure of that. I think he may be more self delusional than we know. Then again, I don't think he's delusional enough not to realize that any nuclear attack from Russia will result in a flight of stealth bombers to drop enough conventional ordinance on his home/office/bunker to make a crater he can't climb out of with a step ladder.

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:53 pm

Tarmaque wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:45 pm
I think he may be more self delusional than we know.
I think that is what I was getting at, poorly. Something just isn't right with him. Then again, the crazy man act has it uses. If he's acting he deserves an Oscar.
Tarmaque wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:45 pm
in a flight of stealth bombers to drop enough conventional ordinance on his home/office/bunker to make a crater he can't climb out of with a step ladder.
With bunker busters it won't even take that many.

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Re: An appeals court rules the Justice Dept. can use Mar-a-Lago records in criminal probe

Post by Tarmaque » Thu Sep 22, 2022 6:18 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 5:53 pm
Something just isn't right with him.
I think Putin is a man of above average intelligence, but I also think that he suffers from Trump disease. He's surrounded himself with yes men for so long that he isn't capable of recognizing the truth when it's right in front of him. He thinks that Russia's military and abilities are far greater than they actually are because no one's told him different. They just tell him how great he is. This is never a good situation for a leader.

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