(Thursda PO) 5 things to know about the latest charges against Donald Trump

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

https://www.npr.org/2023/08/02/11915079 ... an-6-probe

Former President Donald Trump was indicted Tuesday on charges he participated in a conspiracy to overturn the 2020 election results — an effort that reached a bloody crescendo as his supporters attacked the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.

Following an investigation by special counsel Jack Smith, a grand jury voted to charge Trump with conspiracy to defraud the United States, witness tampering and conspiracy against the rights of citizens, and obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding.

Trump, who has been summoned to appear in court on Thursday, is still the leading candidate in the Republican primary race. If he pleads not guilty (as he has with the other indictments), we could be hearing about his trial as he makes his case for the White House.

Here are five key points to help get you up to speed.
1. This is the third criminal indictment for Trump, but it's more than just another legal woe
Trump charged with 4 felony counts for attempt to overturn the 2020 election
Law
Trump charged with 4 felony counts for attempt to overturn the 2020 election

The former president now faces legal peril in three criminal cases — following March's indictment on 34 counts of falsifying business records and June's indictment on 37 counts of mishandling classified documents. Trump has pleaded not guilty in both cases.

A prosecutor in Fulton County, Ga., is leading a separate investigation into Trump's alleged efforts to pressure state election officials there. And Trump is also fighting two civil lawsuits, including a federal jury finding that left him liable for battery and defamation.

But this latest indictment stands apart from Trump's other legal challenges.
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The Department of Justice's investigation into Jan. 6, 2021, is among the most sprawling and complex in U.S. history — it gets at the heart of the alleged effort to overturn legitimate election results and obstruct the peaceful transfer of power.

"The attack on our nation's Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, was an unprecedented assault on the seat of American democracy," said the special counsel in a short statement before reporters. "As described in the indictment, it was fueled by lies. Lies by the defendant, targeted at obstructing a bedrock function of the U.S. government."
2. The latest charges represent significant legal peril
The charges facing Trump in the Jan. 6 investigation, explained
Law
The charges facing Trump in the Jan. 6 investigation, explained

The indictment charges Trump with four serious federal criminal offenses:

Conspiracy to defraud the United States applies to Trump's repeated and widespread efforts to spread false claims about the November 2020 election while knowing they were not true and for allegedly attempting to illegally discount legitimate votes all with the goal of overturning the 2020 election, prosecutors claim in the indictment.
Conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding was brought due to the alleged organized planning of Trump and his allies to disrupt the electoral vote's certification in January 2021.
Obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding is tied to Trump and his co-conspirators' actual efforts after the November 2020 election until Jan. 7, 2021, to block the official certification proceeding in Congress.
Conspiracy against rights is a Civil War-era law that applies to Trump and his co-conspirators' alleged attempts to "oppress, threaten and intimidate" people in their right to vote in an election.

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University of Richmond law professor Carl Tobias described the overall case against Trump as "damning" and representing real "legal jeopardy."
3. The indictment lists six anonymous co-conspirators

Trump is the only person who is charged and he is the only defendant in this latest indictment. But the court document scatters some clues for the future in terms of who else might potentially face charges.

Six people are labeled as co-conspirators in the indictment. They are given individual numbers and potentially identifying traits but they are not identified by name in the court document.
Special counsel Jack Smith speaks about the latest indictment against Trump
Law
Special counsel Jack Smith speaks about the latest indictment against Trump

Some are attorneys who helped promote bogus election fraud claims. Co-conspirator 3 is described as an attorney who privately acknowledged that the unfounded election fraud claims were "crazy." Another, co-conspirator 4, was a Justice Department official who worked on civil matters and "attempted to use the Justice Department to open sham election crime investigations and influence state legislatures."

And their descriptions line up with those of people who could be of interest to investigators, such as former Trump lawyers Rudy Giuliani, John Eastman and Sidney Powell and former DOJ attorney Jeffrey Clark.
4. Trump is calling this indictment "fake." And, yes, he's still leading the polls

Even before the indictment was unsealed, Trump and his allies were actively working to control the narrative, calling this a sham indictment and accusing the Biden administration of trying to interfere with the 2024 election.

On Truth Social, Trump said a "Fake Indictment" was evidence of "prosecutorial misconduct." His campaign issued a formal statement (and, later, a fundraising pitch) calling it "election interference." And his Republican allies in Congress — plus even some of his GOP primary foes — cast the indictment as political persecution at the hands of the Biden administration.

But as NPR White House correspondent Franco Ordoñez pointed out in an interview with All Things Considered, the attacks from Trump and his supporters are focusing on the process — not so much the substance.
GOP support for Trump softens as the former president's legal troubles mount
Politics
GOP support for Trump softens as the former president's legal troubles mount

"They claim these are politically motivated charges. They attack the special counsel. But they don't necessarily refute specific allegations," Ordoñez said. "They don't argue Trump never incited those followers who attacked the Capitol. They never say that Trump didn't seek a group of fake electors."

That's because after two impeachments, three indictments and quite a few scandals in between, Trump has conditioned his supporters to see each allegation against him as a reason to rally around him.

And it works. In March, several weeks before the first indictment, Trump had just 43% of the vote in Republican polling, according to a RealClearPolitics average. But a day after he was charged in a hush-money scheme to an adult film actress, his numbers had jumped to 50%.

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

I'm struggling with this one. I really need to talk to @Mr. Buh The Watchful. The charges related to classified documents. These feel like a reach to me.

[Tarmaque]

Unrelated:

https://kidnappedbygnomes.com/index.php

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

Unrelated:

I want to see Spiderman share an apartment with Baby Yoda. That's my son's dream show.

[Slip Shod]

judge tells feds to take Free speech traininghttps://justthenews.com/government/fede ... dia-censor
*
&
Biden Blames USA Downgrade On Trump (of course)

[Z is for Zangie]

judge tells feds to take Free speech traininghttps://justthenews.com/government/fede ... dia-censor
*
&
Biden Blames USA Downgrade On Trump (of course)

Sigh
This crap is why we disagree so much

[Z is for Zangie]

I'm struggling with this one. I really need to talk to @Mr. Buh The Watchful. The charges related to classified documents. These feel like a reach to me.

You should look up either Ken White who has a substack called Popehat Report (Pope hat is a nickname he uses), or Ben Wittes with Lawfare, both are very good atty's and fair, and about the law. I am sure they have pieces about the document stuff, I have read about it in several places.

What do you think is a reach? I know a lot about this particular case.

[Z is for Zangie]

I'm struggling with this one. I really need to talk to @Mr. Buh The Watchful. The charges related to classified documents. These feel like a reach to me.

You should look up either Ken White who has a substack called Popehat Report (Pope hat is a nickname he uses), or Ben Wittes with Lawfare, both are very good atty's and fair, and about the law. I am sure they have pieces about the document stuff, I have read about it in several places.

What do you think is a reach? I know a lot about this particular case.

But, basically, he is in trouble because he had no right to take them or keep them, they belong to the people in the archives...he was asked for over a year to return them and not only wouldn't, but, conspired to hide them, lied to his attys too...why his valet and maintenance guy are in trouble too, they helped him move them, and tried to destroy the security tapes. He also showed one that was marked highly classified to ordinary people. They have him on tape doing that. Most atty's o both sides think this is the most slam dunk case that is happening.

But, what questions do you have?

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

What do you think is a reach? I know a lot about this particular case.

But, basically, he is in trouble because he had no right to take them or keep them, they belong to the people in the archives...

Different case. That one I understand and it is pretty clear. It's the charges related to January 6th and "defrauding the US government" that don't seem to add up to me.

[Z is for Zangie]

What do you think is a reach? I know a lot about this particular case.

But, basically, he is in trouble because he had no right to take them or keep them, they belong to the people in the archives...

Different case. That one I understand and it is pretty clear. It's the charges related to January 6th and "defrauding the US government" that don't seem to add up to me.

Here ya go, he describes it pretty well, plus there is a pod where he and Josh Barro ( also an atty) discuss it even further, I subscribe so I can probably email it to you if you want

[Slip Shod]

judge tells feds to take Free speech traininghttps://justthenews.com/government/fede ... dia-censor
*
&
Biden Blames USA Downgrade On Trump (of course)

Sigh
This crap is why we disagree so much

What do you mean crap? Do you mean I was lying? Here's an article from politico
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/0 ... s-00104656
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Insinuating that I come out here and lie, Z that's going a bit far -
But my feathers don't easily ruffle.
• here's a quote from the judge ..
Doughty said federal officials "can be and should be trained to recognize what speech is protected and what speech is not prior to working with social-media companies to suppress or delete postings."
where's the crap?
*
And as far as Biden blaming Trump for EVERYTHING from teenage acne to jock itch, that is called a hyperbole

[Z is for Zangie]

@Tarmaque @GuideToACrazyWorld

ok, here is the link, have no idea why it didn't post...sigh

https://popehat.substack.com/p/people-a ... dium=email

[Z is for Zangie]

judge tells feds to take Free speech traininghttps://justthenews.com/government/fede ... dia-censor
*
&
Biden Blames USA Downgrade On Trump (of course)

Sigh
This crap is why we disagree so much

What do you mean crap? Do you mean I was lying? Here's an article from politico
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/0 ... s-00104656
-
Insinuating that I come out here and lie, Z that's going a bit far -
But my feathers don't easily ruffle & so I can easily love and forgive you
• here's a quote from the judge ..
Doughty said federal officials "can be and should be trained to recognize what speech is protected and what speech is not prior to working with social-media companies to suppress or delete postings."
where's the crap?
*
And as far as Biden blaming Trump for EVERYTHING from teenage acne to jock itch, that is called a hyperbole

I don't think you are lying, I think you believe everything someone on the right says and dismiss everything anyone on the left says.

This is pure politics, the right, right now is blaming Biden for everything, including false accusations about his character or things like we are in favor of pedophiles etc...so, seems normal tit for tat to me...but, the right is way louder , involves many people and are outright despicable lies, and they give him credit for nothing...there is maybe one thing I would give Trump credit for, and the is the fast rollout of the vaccine...other than that, he is and was horrible.

Joe has actually done a lot of good stuff ( not perfect, no president or human is) , but they won't say that, because they are zombie partisans and will vote for anyone with an R next to their name. And literally their platform is: destroy the liberals, Biden never says destroy the R's, he is pretty bipartisan on a lot of stuff, and he only attacks politicians, not everyday people...which is fair game in our system even if I don't like it...

DeSantis the other day when asked about the departments in the government and what he would do if he were president literally said?

We are going to bein slitting throats on day one....sigh...I am supposed to be ok with this, and not be afraid of these people? At the leat he is condoning violence based on just disagreemetns on policy.

I personally think they have to be careful about the social media companies thing, but, on the other hand, both sides are appealing to their base , which is their job...

[Slip Shod]

4 Z
Personally for me, DeSantis just doesn't have the charisma or pizzazz to lead the country .
I think his skill sets are best left in Florida. Make the most of it there.
--
And I did pull up your reference and listened to the 27 minute back and forth between Ken White and his interviewer.
I have my own thoughts about Trump's indictment; first being that witch of a judge. She should certainly refuse herself on the basis of being bias. Trump got screwed on that one.
Ultimately I think it will be headed towards the Supreme Court. Did you know that this special prosecutor has a list of rulings against him?

[GuideToACrazyWorld]

ere ya go, he describes it pretty well, plus there is a pod where he and Josh Barro ( also an atty) discuss it even further, I subscribe so I can probably email it to you if you want

I think you forgot the link

[Z is for Zangie]

ere ya go, he describes it pretty well, plus there is a pod where he and Josh Barro ( also an atty) discuss it even further, I subscribe so I can probably email it to you if you want

I think you forgot the link

I didn't forget, it didn't post for some reason, but, I posted it down thread with an @ to you and Tarm
Let me know what you think after you read it

[Z is for Zangie]

ere ya go, he describes it pretty well, plus there is a pod where he and Josh Barro ( also an atty) discuss it even further, I subscribe so I can probably email it to you if you want

I think you forgot the link

I didn't forget, it didn't post for some reason, but, I posted it down thread with an @ to you and Tarm
Let me know what you think after you read it..damn now that one is gone,,,sheesh....will try again
https://popehat.substack.com/p/people-a ... dium=email

[Z is for Zangie]

4 Z
Personally for me, DeSantis just doesn't have the charisma or pizzazz to lead the country .
I think his skill sets are best left in Florida. Make the most of it there.
--
And I did pull up your reference and listened to the 27 minute back and forth between Ken White and his interviewer.
I have my own thoughts about Trump's indictment; first being that witch of a judge. She should certainly refuse herself on the basis of being bias. Trump got screwed on that one.
Ultimately I think it will be headed towards the Supreme Court. Did you know that this special prosecutor has a list of rulings against him?

Thanks for listening to the pod, just an FYI though... Josh and he are partners for the pod,and good friends...he is not an interviewer, they both have separate substacks, and they talk back and forth like that on all the pods, Ken still works as an Atty, but Josh doesn't..he does a lot of analysis and opinions about politics in general...he is pretty cool, they both are