Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Z is for Zangie » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:16 pm

Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


Only paywalled sources, which are mainly WA PO and NYT on the left for the most part
If you aren't sure you can ask, or we will just tell you after the fact, nothing bad happens
Yeah we are trying to change the echo chamber thing, not going well
I will miss you, wish you wouldn't go, you are a valuable voice



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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Cell Zealot » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:28 pm

Z is for Zangie wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:16 pm
Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


Only paywalled sources, which are mainly WA PO and NYT on the left for the most part
If you aren't sure you can ask, or we will just tell you after the fact, nothing bad happens
Yeah we are trying to change the echo chamber thing, not going well
I will miss you, wish you wouldn't go, you are a valuable voice


And the beat goes on...

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by scarab280 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:25 pm

Thank you.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Mr. Buh The Watchful » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:30 pm

Lyn wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:47 pm
@Mr. Buh The Watchful
Just for the sake of clarity, I assume there will be no more posting of cartoons (political or otherwise), photographs, graphics or videos, which might also be liable to copyright infringement, unless there is clear permission for their usage from the originator (or no copyright involved, such generated from government agencies)? Obviously if someone takes a photo and then posts it, they are giving approval, but I'm thinking more of material on other sites. Speaking of those both outside and inside paywalls, of course.

Makes me wonder how Pinterest manages, since much of what they offer is not credited to the originator....hard to imagine they have permission for all that is posted there (including quotes, snippets of articles, etc.) Actually, makes me wonder about Twitter, Facebook, etc. I think I'm thinking too much.

Thanks!
If it is found behind a paywall, then it should not be posted. If it’s not behind a pay wall, & just easily available on the internet, I argue fair use if you post it *and* comment on it. As we are not a commercial site, we run a smaller risk of issues. No-one is profiting or seeing any economic benefit from the site. Quite the opposite in my & Guide’s case, actually! 😂.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by scarab280 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:38 pm

If it is found behind a paywall, then it should not be posted. If it’s not behind a pay wall, & just easily available on the internet, I argue fair use if you post it *and* comment on it. As we are not a commercial site, we run a smaller risk of issues. No-one is profiting or seeing any economic benefit from the site. Quite the opposite in my & Guide’s case, actually! 😂.
[/quote]

Yes, and we most likely don't acknowlege, or thank you and Guide (& of course LeRoy for the build) for that. So, thank you, thank you, thank you!

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 pm

scarab280 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Yes, and we most likely don't acknowlege, or thank you and Guide (& of course LeRoy for the build) for that. So, thank you, thank you, thank you!
Just so you know guide and Leroy are the same guy. Leroy is my site admin account. No need to thank both of us. ;)

I appreciate it though.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by scarab280 » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:43 pm

GuideToACrazyWorld wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:41 pm
scarab280 wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:38 pm
Yes, and we most likely don't acknowlege, or thank you and Guide (& of course LeRoy for the build) for that. So, thank you, thank you, thank you!
Just so you know guide and Leroy are the same guy. Leroy is my site admin account. No need to thank both of us. ;)

I appreciate it though.
Ohhhhh..lolz...oopsy...😉

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Mr. Buh The Watchful » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm

Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY!

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:02 pm

Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm
Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY!
(emphasis added)

woah!!!!!!

legal beagles are now very, very confused -- the prohibition against sources with a paywall is only for starting original threads?!?!

if so, this means that copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall ARE permitted in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started, correct?

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Z is for Zangie » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm
Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY!


I know I misunderstood...so you can direct to a paywall sourced stuff in the body of a thread then?
Not exactly sure if I understand the difference?

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Mr. Buh The Watchful » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:37 pm

SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:02 pm
Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm
Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY!
(emphasis added)

woah!!!!!!

legal beagles are now very, very confused -- the prohibition against sources with a paywall is only for starting original threads?!?!

if so, this means that copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall ARE permitted in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started, correct?
Yes, they always have been OK.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:46 pm

Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:37 pm
SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:02 pm
Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY![/i]
(emphasis added)

woah!!!!!!

legal beagles are now very, very confused -- the prohibition against sources with a paywall is only for starting original threads?!?!

if so, this means that copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall ARE permitted in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started, correct?
Yes, they always have been OK.
thank you.

then legal beagle notes 2.0 is:

this thread seems to have confirmed ACTUAL (single) rule as

no use of content from sources with a paywall or use of a link to a paywalled source to start a thread or discussion
(no copying of any text, whether in whole or in part to start a thread

the rule does not prohibit copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Mr. Buh The Watchful » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:00 pm

Z is for Zangie wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:03 pm
Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:51 pm
Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title


I think you may be confused, & if so, it’s likely my fault, & I apologize. This only applies to creation of original topics. You are free, under fair use, to cite any source you want, in “explaining” your position. Self censoring has not changed. Civility is still a priority. Hope to still see you at some point EY!


I know I misunderstood...so you can direct to a paywall sourced stuff in the body of a thread then?
Not exactly sure if I understand the difference?


At that point, you are not starting a discussion that directs & requires any poster to read a pay walled article to participate in the discussion. You are perhaps running the risk of having someone reply that your source is behind a pay wall & can’t you come up with something they can read without a subscription (I used to see that on old AA a lot), but so what? It’s their choice, at that point, to accept your argument & sources, or not. You are not trying to base an entire discussion on a pay walled source.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Mr. Buh The Watchful » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:01 pm

SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:46 pm
Mr. Buh The Watchful wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:37 pm
SIASD (& 別對牛彈琴) wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:02 pm

(emphasis added)

woah!!!!!!

legal beagles are now very, very confused -- the prohibition against sources with a paywall is only for starting original threads?!?!

if so, this means that copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall ARE permitted in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started, correct?
Yes, they always have been OK.
thank you.

then legal beagle notes 2.0 is:

this thread seems to have confirmed ACTUAL (single) rule as

no use of content from sources with a paywall or use of a link to a paywalled source to start a thread or discussion
(no copying of any text, whether in whole or in part to start a thread

the rule does not prohibit copying limited content and/or links to sources with a paywall in subsequent posts after an original thread has been started
Correct! 👍

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Tarmaque » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:14 am

Lyn wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 6:47 pm
Makes me wonder how Pinterest manages, since much of what they offer is not credited to the originator....hard to imagine they have permission for all that is posted there (including quotes, snippets of articles, etc.) Actually, makes me wonder about Twitter, Facebook, etc. I think I'm thinking too much.
It's my understanding that Pinterest and other image sites like Tumblr act under similar rules as YouTube: People post a lot of stuff that they don't "own" but the parent company is not liable for it. What this means in practice if not in theory is all they have to do is take it down if the owner of the material complains. The uploader is technically responsible, but the owners are unlikely to pursue legal action for these violations because the cost of prosecution outweighs any potential award for small violations that are already taken down.

YouTube also has rules that allow using small extracts from commercial properties for reviews or (in some cases) satire, but this also just means that what you post is subject to the whims of the YouTube administrators. YouTube is pretty good about taking down copyrighted material pretty quickly if it violates their TOS. Much of it is automatic.

Generally speaking on YouTube a clip of a few seconds of just about any source is unlikely to trip a takedown notice. Longer clips of a minute or two in the service of a review are slightly more likely to instigate a takedown, but still pretty safe. Longer, full scenes of famous movies are more likely to get taken down, while full movies or shows tend to disappear pretty rapidly.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Senor Natural » Thu Oct 17, 2019 3:40 am

Euro Yank wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:09 pm
I see the current situation as follows:
1) Any attempt to explain your opinion with factual citations will create legal risks to our hosts.
2) The above requires us to self-censor. Not a skill that I am adept at.
3) This seems more than I wish to risk just to continue chatting in an echo chamber.
4) I do thank my hosts for inviting me to the party.
5) And I do wish everyone I have met here, over at Disqus and originally at NPR a very fond farewell.


One final pedantic comment - please fix the typo in your title

I feel the same way.

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by Temporary Mike » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:36 pm

A couple of thoughts:

We can base a thread on an NPR story we heard this morning, and NPR is available everywhere in America. Can EuroYank base a thread on something broadcast on BBC? How about Totoro Joe and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation?

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Re: Please Read: Sources Behide a Paywall

Post by GuideToACrazyWorld » Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:59 pm

Temporary Mike wrote:
Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:36 pm
We can base a thread on an NPR story we heard this morning, and NPR is available everywhere in America. Can EuroYank base a thread on something broadcast on BBC? How about Totoro Joe and the Australian Broadcasting Corporation?
Any sources that is not behind a paywall is acceptable site wide. Individual house set their own rules so you would have to check with the rules or house Mods to see what they allow.

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